All options have already indeed been suggested, but this one:

"6.Light on board when you running on low fuel Most race cars don't even have a fuel gauge"

But MANY race-cars DO have one, so it will make it lfs better if cars in lfs would have a fuel light too. Only for example the mrt5 probably wouldn't have a fuel light indicater(just guessing)
formula cars, gt-racing cars, road-cars, al have fuel light indicators or at leas a fuel light indicator.

I already post a long time ago a link to a movie which showed a example of spyker GT2R car which has a very, very big low-fuellight indicator.

If it was built like that into lfs, people would be shouting it is unrealistic!

Quote from Costas Athan :

Well as I already wrote (#43) I expect from a simulator the right behavior. If that means a broken suspension which would lead to a retirement it's OK.

Although, even with a bended suspension you can drive the car very fast. Watch this replay --> http://www.filedropper.com/steering and notice that in some straights I don't full throttle because I gave up the effort for a better position. And even without pushing the car I can steel do 1:22. Notice also how much I should steer in order to keep the car in a straight line, in order to understand how damaged the suspension is.

edit: I forgot to write it...

I don't know if the curb is 20 cm high (it's difficult to estimate its height and I don't know if there is a way to measure it) but if it is so high it must be redesigned. Curbs aren't there to cause accidents...

I am sorry i have to disappoint you, there is no such thing as a perfect simulation Also, what exactly happens when you destroy your car, is not very interesting for a simulation; you're out of race, if the wheel came off, you flipped over of got launched to the moon.. so what..
The curb in itself is ok, i never,ever flipped my car and i did .. many, many many(!) laps at bl gp. Just don't steer in too early and if you do, evade that inside curb! irl there are tracks too where you just cannot drive onto the innerside curb because its too high.

It is indeed possible to do a 1:22 with bent suspension, that is about 10 seconds slower then wr time. I will be worried if you can do 1:14 or better with seriously damaged car.

Quote from Costas Athan :

Are you sure you watched the replays?

Because I consider 100 kph as a slow speed for a one seater, slow enough to prevent rollovers. (In fact slow enough to prevent many kinds of racing accidents).

Did you watch the two wheels drive? I don't think Formula BMW is an ordinary car for that kind of stunts. Actually open wheelers aren't good for stunts at all. Stunt cars are specially tuned.

And in the case of the uphill turn I didn't make the perfect entry, but I have seen worse in racing and in most cases cars ending up out of the road with wheels facing down.

100kph is not that fast, but hitting head on into a concrete wall is also for a single seater seriously fast. The chassis will be broken and the entire car will have to be rebuild..and everybody who isn't in serious good condition will stay in hospital for some time.

I seems you don't want to hear it, you drive up a steep and 15cm-20cm high curb at 100+ km/h and complain something happens that makes it impossible to continue race. It does not matter if the wheel should have broken off or flip the over. You are out of race, that is realistic. Since formula cars are very,very strong, irl the suspension would bent slightly making the car so bad to drive you have to retire from race. And in this case, with the giving angles, g-loads and steering input irl you might also flipped over the car.

If you buy lfs and start racing the hot gtr hatchbacks, it will be a lot worse, you can flip those over low curbs, and they do that irl life too

Quote from Costas Athan :

Well I don't think it is easy to make a one seater fly... And surely it shouldn't happen in my case. Watch the replay and make your judgment.

Irl singe seaters are bouncing over the curbs, inside wheels driving full over inside. In lfs this would mean total loss of grip.

Single seaters do not fly often, but i remember a picture of Jos Verstappen in a a1gp car going over a hill resulting in all four wheels in the air Doing just a regular lap.

http://www.verstappen.nl/column/12.html


However you are really driving up a very steep curb, which does have an effect you might rol over espacially if you don' t counter steer like you did.

The second mpr, the two wheel driving on lap 5 is indeed a bug, i agree.

Now in lfs many fast setups are so soft, it would make a formula cars suitable for public road use. The cars lean much more over in corners then irl, this is very noticable when viewing the load on the tires; way too big weight transfers/camber changes in corners due to very soft suspension settings. Also making it rewarding to drive ultra-high tire pressure and huge negative camber settings. Cause of this is, is the well known defects in the tire-moddeling of lfs.

So maybe wait for the next tire-physics update, if tires behave a lot more realistic it most likely more rewarding to have a as low-as-possible-ride height and much stiffer suspension-settings and also to drive with a lot less camber and have realistic tyre-pressure levels. (i hope, i wish.. i am dreaming off... )

Quote from stry90dis :

Sidequestion, IRL F1, why do they have so many gears if you'll have wheelspin in 2nd/3rd gear? To save the clutch?

Irl the tires are better then we get in LFS Irl F1 drivers apply a lot of throttle at rather slow speeds(2nd/3rd gear) in lfs it is bit too much on/off.. no power dam slow... just a bit more power crash!

Although i still like the bf1 most driving without tc, i just think it is just a bit too demanding in lfs on corner exit. F1 tyres have great grip! In straight line, the go full throttle in 2nd gear, in 1st they already go way over 100km/h

Other reason they have so many gears, the penalty for changing gear is very low, a gear changes takes less then 0,10 sec and some reports say gearshifts takes less then 0,04 sec.
This site: http://www.f1network.net/main/s107/st97040.htm claims gearshifts takes 25-30 milliseconds (0,025 - 0,030 seconds)
In 2007 seamless-shif boxes were introduced, meaning no power is lost while shifting.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:26.

Quote from SidiousX :

You can adjust the traction control, you just have to do it in the pits.

In F1 they could adjust all those settings while ont rack, that was the point he was making.

I am against boost, Formula one didn't have it in 2006 and also the kers system is only populair at the enviromental terrorists. It doesn't work well. Years ago it was tried in city busses, they stopped quickly with that, the added mass and production costs was not worth it. I wont be surprised if kers will be banned next season for being so useless.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:57. Reason : typo

Quote from Darkone55 :

Well.. Although this turn is cambered, the BF1 still does over 6 G. That's just too much. In other fast turns it easily does over 5 G.

According to this page real f1 cars corners faster at low speed then the ones of lfs and at high speed consistent 6g is indeed on he high side but by just a little.

Many other sources claime F1 cars will generate 5g's consistently on any fast corner during entire races..

I did some test few minutes ago, got as national set, some extra wing to get more grip, put on r2 tires to get realistic grip levels. I did not exceed 5g, only peaked once over it. In the slow corners maximum lateral forces were on the low side compared to some sources.
Also tested at as-grand prix i did manage to get it to peak at 6.5g's for a very brief moment, in the fast left hander which is also banked and then immediately dropping back to 4.5 - 5 g's max.

Can you post the replay showing consistent 6g through a long corner?

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:10. Reason : typos

Quote from deggis :

I have also always thought that getting the tyres right would really change the experience more than new content or other most often requested features.

_

Agree 1000%!! The current tire physics have driven me nuts several times.

Now i find myself checking everyday to see it the new patch is released.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Of course track day or slick tyres will increasing lateral acceleration a lot. Just look at the two entries for the Elise. I spent a few hours compling that list, I'd happily add more to it if people can serve up links to reputable sources.


I never said the list was complete!


Well the Stradale is practically a racecar so that's expected.

Also please bear in mind that what you can achieve on a racetrack is more than on a flat skidpan result. The point of skidpan testing (I thought) was to level the playing field (almost literally, even mildly cambered bends permit a substanial increasing in lateral acceleration), remove the chance of short lived transients influencing the results, and to have an easily comparable benchmark between cars.

Anyway, give me links to figures or more sites to wade through and I'll expand my list.

Just find as many sources as possible with actual measurements and try to figure out what kind of car they are driving. For example 900-1000kg lmp cars are pulling 4.5g' s in fast corners, which makes the 4.5g maximum of the bf1 in lfs rather look ok.

Some nearly standard big bmw m5 saloon pulling 1.3g at nordschleife

A (modified)350z pulling 1.2g' s on a damp track,the 350z will do stock maybe 1.0 max. but that is with stock suspension which also makes it easy to go over speed bumps at nice speeds on public roads. With race-type suspension this 1500 kg car is just great despite it huge weight. However if nissan would sell the car with race-suspension fitted, nobody would buy the car because it is hardly usable on public roads. So by just upgrading the stock suspension(if done well) and fitting better tires, grip increases big time. Sometimes fitting a modest rear wing give also serious improvements to neutralize any generated lift at high speeds.

What are we racing at lfs, exactly that, cars with suspension totally replaced by racing components and setup for only one thing, race track!
And supposedly we will not be using any high performance tire from just any manufacturer, but use the best there is.

That' s why, for example, i think the the maximum of about 1.2g's for xrg is very correct.

Quote from iFastLT :

that was movie, man, also maybe it was cobra 11?

No, real flip in real live, not movie lol

I couldnt find the one i ment, but did get this one, nice flip over from apperently touching inner side curb, just as what happens if you do that in lfs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF1kaiuN4v0

While searching i saw some big flips and flying cars, the crashes in lfs now looks suddenly a lot better to me, cars can get airborne and jump and fly all over the place

A demonstration on how incredibly strong suspensions are nowadays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9JTAhpDiDY

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:46.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Is that question aimed at me or another Bob? I'm not aware of what issues you are referring to?


:jester:


Aha, now I understand your other comment. You are living in the future. Welcome to the present: http://www.vehicle-analyser.com/skidpan_results.PNG

maybe take a look at nowadays measurements! instead of theoretical limits of some analyser/website who claimes to have correct figures. Before i posted i dubbel checked the g-loads before posting it. With custom suspension and proper tires(stock tires are rarely any good at all) many cars perform a lot better then stock.

Quote from L@gger :

it will be harder to make 2 side wheels stunts or not?

Real hothatches also tent to be easily flipped, some time ago i saw a real movie of sedan takeoff flipping into the air over a minor bush.... It does really happen irl :-)

Great to see we can expect serious improvements in lfs in hopefully short time(less then a month i hope???..)

I hope the weird soapy handling on change of direction will be a lot better then it is now.

I'm only not sure about less grip of tyres, 1500kg roadcars nowadays pull well over 1G. Well not with stock suspension but in essence big heavy roadgoing sportscars with upgraded suspension, very limited downforce and not on slick tires. Also the lmp1 one cars are pulling about 4.5g' s on fast corners, which is for the bf1 more ore less the maximum in lfs...all suggests grip levels in lfs are not too high, well sideways at least..

I think the current grip in lfs is actually rather good, but the tyres handling/responses and heat generating problems needed addressing.

But it all looks it will be a lot better drive in lfs in a very short time

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:12.

Quote from XCNuse :

That is a LOOOOT of work, but imo it needs to be done.

All tracks should be as bump some of the worst places of SO, that's why I like South City because it has a more realistic feel, it's more organic feeling, sometimes its actually to smooth, I know the really short SO track gets really bump in the XFGTR and it gets to be lots of fun!

Why? irl road surface is sometimes very VERY smooth while others ae indeed very bumpy. What i mean is, NOT all tracks should be bumpy.

Quote from NightEye :

He just wanted to review a replay.


Earlier I said I had come across no bugs. But sometimes when I Shift+P, it selects a different skin setup than what I had on the car before pitting. It happened to me three times now.
Perhaps I must say most of my skins are 2560×2048, but it did jump to one of those aswell. But it might still be causing the problem.

I didn't have this before in Z13.

I noticed this too, especially on track changes on the servers with many racers online.

Quote from Skeete :

How about a 1.6 litre Ginetta G27

500kg and about 140bhp. Long wheelbased ultra lightweight limited power racing. Something thats missing from LFS.

LX4?
140Bhp
499KG
:eclipseeh

Quote from scania :

that's what I want

Ouch! that' s very bad for the environment and a total waste of energy lol! First nuke power, preferably nuclear fusion, then powergrid with 10-20 times the current capacity and only then electric cars might be an good idea.

Quote from J03130 :

Scawen will you be having more real life cars in S3 (if there ever is one) because i see the scirroco as a start so why stop...i know that you have to get licenses but im just curious to if you will be planning some more.

There already many real life cars in LFS. The start of real life cars was the MRT, the we got raceabout, BF1 and soon the scirocco. The uf1 might also be considerd a real life car resembling the old mini's of the sixtys.

lx4 and lx6 can also be considered real life cars, because you can buy car-kits to build your own lx4, lx6 or lx8. I am still hoping someday we will see the lx8 really appear in official version of lfs. But i guess the tires issue's have to addressed first.

@kaynd

I agree, but i think the effect is way too strong. In your very nice screen shots(!) it is visible the force might be a bit on the high side I doubt if kv-oval is an good comparison, because banking there is much higher and still.. you could not reproduce the same effect?

Also note, on FE the lifting from the right rear wheel is caused by the extreme grip of the left rear tyre, on kv oval its the banking which is causing it.

Its also weird the suspension travel ran out, settings are for fe track.. Rather high ride height; springs and dampers are set rather stiff compared to the ride height.
It would take 2900Newtons of force on one wheel at minimum! Minimum, because the anti-roll bars wiill make the suspension stiffer when cornering or sliding just like this. Anti-roll should have added at least 1950Newtons of extra springs tension in this particular situation. Total of at least 4850N on top of normal loading because of the weight of the car. I did not take into account the extra resistance the dampers would have given to resist the "shock" because i have no idea how to calculate that.

Does such heavy loading also happen irl with such corners? i don't know hehe

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:13.

Quote from bunder9999 :

you sure you didn't touch the dirt with the left rear tire? a quick sudden loss of traction would throw the car sideways like that.

Correct, but its about the very high g-load and total tyre deformation caused by ditch in the track. I never seen such a thing happen irl.

Peak g-load is actually 5.11 g lol

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:49.

Sorry i uploaded the correct replay now

Hello all,
First i though an old bug had returned about suspension being much too weak but then i noticed in the replay there is a severe ditch on track causing to a peak sideways g-load of 5.10 and total deformation of the left rear tire which was at maximum pressure. I would expect such things only to happen with under inflated tires, but not with tires at maximum pressure.

I never seen such thing happen during any formula race, so i wonder whether it is realistic. If such a hole was in a real track they would fix it before allowing formula cars racing on it. formula cars in such slides happily bounce all over the place, track or gravel trap, and then continue to race if they didn't hit the wall or something like that.

In the replay its at 2:58:13 with my car(Bluebird) in the fast,but dangerous, full throttle right hander.

Is this realistic or a bug?

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:39.

Quote from scania :

but the out put curve is different
Petrol car need to wait the maxium torque come, but diesel car can supply power very fast

I'm sorry that is not true.

Diesels are actually slower to get on power and torque because they usually need higher turbo-pressures to achieve the same performance. Also petrol engines do everything at slightly higher revs including idling. The T5 from volvo does not have noticable turbo lag or slow responses. There are petrol engines which do need a lot of revs to get the turbo-charger generate enough pressure, mitsubisi lancer evo's for example. BUT try find an equvilant 2 liter diesel.... There isn't any that even gets close to the performance of the evo's engines!

Also petrol engines with low-pressure turbo's feel like an electric engine, loads of torque as low as 1500rpm al the way up to 6000 rpm. Only way to match this with a diesel is by fitting a much better turbo-charger and injection systems.

Quote from RasmusL :

Well, you CAN adjust the amount of downforce

You are missing the point.

F1 cars up up to 2008 seaon have specialized body-kits and wings for extreme tracks. A BF1 with aero package for monza would really suck at monaco. Even suspension is specially adjusted for some tracks. I don't mean different settings but really different parts.

For ovals it is much more extreme, outside wheels are usually bigger then inner side, smaller wings, which are much more efficient in generating a little bit downforce. Also the tyres-compounds are not the same as on normal tracks giving better grip then regular tyres at high speed.

Big wings cause a lot more drag at high speeds even at minimal settings and you don't need much downforce on an oval track. All the small winglets and weird shapes on the bodywork of an F1 car are not designed for ovals and not optimal for 340+km/h. Also the diffuser will most likely be a different shape which would be really bad below 200km/h but great at speeds over 300km/h

F1 don't drive on ovals, but if they did they would use the same small wings as indy/cart series on the big 2mile ovals. So an 2006 F1 car with aero package for an big oval-track will reach 390-410km/h or even a lot more...and on south city it will really feel like a very different car so many parts will be replaced by parts designed for low-speed normal tracks.

edit: tried to correct the worst typos

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:54.